Reflections 4

The Beginning
Reflections
Updated 06/07/99
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From: KEMP_HOWLAND 1:27 pm
To: Victoria 18 Forum
#9.17, in reply to 9.16 prev 17 of 17

Questions from the Forum on the beginning of the Victoria 18

Can you give us an idea of when, why and how GWM II came to Florida and how he found or gathered together the financial resources to start manufacturing the Vic in DeBary or wherever the first boats were manufactured?
First, let me state that this is based on my recollection going back twenty-plus years. Also, I was not there all the time for every phase of the operation. Although we were good friends, he was nurturing his business and I was nurturing mine. We did not compare financial notes. Some of the information I am attempting to supply is based on my take of the circumstances which I observed. Others may be able to correct or embellish my account.

Had Victoria's 18's been manufactured anywhere else (prototypes or other)?

Not to my knowledge.

Did GWM II have backers before he moved to Florida?
I don’t know of any.

How did he "start" the company?
I think the company just evolved. At the start, he was making skateboards. Then he started building boats. After a while, someone introduced him to the people who would eventually back him. Early on there was financial support from some of Vicki’s acquaintances. (Vicki was in charge of the neo-natal unit at the Orlando Regional Medical Center. She also worked as a nurse for several local physicians. I’m certain that her contacts helped supply the initial capital.) Eventually the fellows from Nielsen and Minnesota brought an injection of money which allowed Bill to move to DeBary and set up a proper manufacturing facility.

When did you come on board, and how did you get connected with Mr. McVay?

I moved to Sanford, Florida from Detroit in late 1973. I started a business there and after a few years found that I had some free time on week-ends. I had sailed as a youngster at my family’s summer cottage on Cape Cod., and as an adult on the Great Lakes. I thought there might be someone sailing on Lake Monroe in Sanford, so I would go to the marina there from time to time looking for sailboat masts.

One day there were three catamarans with for sale signs on them in the display area at the marina. I wandered around for a while and pretty soon this guy with a beard and REALLY long hair asked if he could help me. It was Bill McVay. He said the boats were for sale. He asked if I knew how to sail and I said yes. Then we got into the “Where have you sailed… How did you learn.. “ dialog.

We found that we had similar backgrounds, and upon closer investigation that we had lived in the same community in Massachusetts!. In fact, my aunt had been Bill’s Sunday School teacher when he was young. We became pretty good friends. I bought a catamaran and we started promoting sailing on Lake Monroe. I met his wife, Vicki and their three large, gray cats.

At this time Bill and Vicki had moved to Sanford from Gainesville, where they had both attended university. They were living in a Chevy van.

They had struck a deal with a local Orlando boat dealer to sell his excess inventory in Sanford. Some of their friends from Gainesville were also hovering around Sanford. As time went by Bill revealed that he and his friends had been making fiberglass skateboards in Gainesville, but wanted to start building sailboats in Sanford.

They were working on a mold at a facility near the Sanford airport. I assume that the plug for the mold was made from a Minuet hull from which the keel had been removed. After listening to Bill’s plans to build this little vessel, I told him I would buy the third or fourth boat.

He produced a single prototype and between himself, his friends and Vicki’s income from her job, they were able to rig the boat. They tweaked it, adding ballast and sail area, but it was basically the boat he had envisioned.

During this time Bill found an old building in downtown Sanford which was better suited to building the boat (which was called the Allegro at the time). They produced four more boats for people who had agreed to buy them upon completion. I got mine, although I’m not sure if it was really number 5 or number 7.

We started sailing on weekends and Wednesday evenings at the Sanford marina. More and more folks got interested, and more boats were built.

In late 1980 or 81 I sold my portion of my business to my partner, and Bill asked if I would be willing to help him sell V-18s. I agreed and went to work. An older gentleman named Burt LeVee was mentoring Bill, and I think he is the one who got the other investors involved. I worked at selling the boats to dealers and getting new products into the pipeline.

This didn’t last long, as Bill was running out of cash and the investors were getting cold feet. We did what we could. I got an offer and went to work for another company (not sailboats).

Bill finally closed the facility and went on to design marinas. By now he and Vicki were on the rocks.

I subsequently got an offer from Sailboat Works to help them move the balance of the Victoria inventory. I did that for a while, then opened my own sailboat store. I kept the boat store open for about a year, then I turned it into a used car lot and sold it.

I would see Bill from time to time at the yacht club, and we would run into each other in the Abacos during race week. But we never saw much of each other on a regular basis.

At times you have mentioned building Minuets in Florida. How many were built, and were they built as a precursor to manufacturing the Victoria 18?

I don’t know that any Minuets were built in Florida. I do know that McVay yachts had a built small boat named the Marin. At least one of those was built here. I think the Minuet we sailed here came with Bill when he moved here.

Was the Minuet going to be the Boat that McVay was to manufacture in Florida with the Sailboat Works, but was redesigned in Florida to be the Victoria 18?

I don’t believe Bill wanted to build the Minuet. Its draft is too deep for easy trailering, and he wanted to build trailerable boats.
How many prototypes were built?
Of the V-18? One. And it was subsequently fitted, rigged and sold. The V-26 was also prototyped and built in Debary, and was ultimately sold as a fully functional boat. Sailboat Works prototyped and sailed a V-17, but it never went beyond the prototype stage.

How many units were trashed due to problems with construction (Hulls) or Decks and so on?

To my knowledge no boats were trashed. A few hulls were deemed unusable and were scrapped. But they were bare shells, without ballast or hardware.

Decks were another matter. Once the hull and deck were one, it was a boat!.. Several early boats had delamination problems in the decks. These boats were fitted with teak decking to cover the imperfections.

Someone has mentioned a teak-decked V-18 in the dialog on the website. I recall two of these boats. They were very striking. Wherever the wood-simulated non-skid surface was on the deck, it was covered with thin strips of teak. Beautiful!

As an aside, a couple of guys came to Bill and asked if he could build an offshore version of the V-18. It was built and was a very sturdy little boat. Extra glass was used in critical places. The hatches were modified. The rig was changed. It was quite a little boat!

The owner named it Bilboa, as I recall. Unfortunately I have no information on it other than the above.

Were there parts that you folks had manufactured to order that were not produced on the open market?

The rudder assembly was a custom-built component. As were the tillers. And, of course, the sails. And the ballast.

The fiberglass bow-cap was fabricated in the Victoria shop. The teak ones were farmed out. To my recollection, everything else was pretty much off the shelf. All of the teak on the Cutter was custom cut.


From: KEMP_HOWLAND 9:22 am To: Victoria 18 Forum #9.22, in reply to 9.20 prev 22 of 22
Who were the fellows from Nielsen and Minnesota?
Burt LeVee (Bill’s mentor here in central Florida) was a Nielsen retiree. I believe he brought the Minnesota investors. I think they were all former co-workers.

How did they find out about Victoria Yachts, and what made them want to invest in it? (Would you have invested the same amount of your money if you had it at the time?, was it a big gamble? if so, then why did those folks invest?) How much capital do you think the folks invested, and was there any collateral?

I would not have invested any money in Victoria yachts. It did not look very promising to me, no matter how much I liked Bill and the boat. The investors were there because they thought there was potential for high return. These guys were executives in an industry concerned primarily with statistics. They hadn’t a clue about manufacturing. They were risk-takers. I don’t know how much they invested. Collateral was supplied by Bill and included all factory fixtures, molds, unsold boats, raw components and work in process. I doubt that the collateral ever balanced the investment. Bill may have also put up personal property as collateral, but that’s is purely conjecture on my part.
In the end, how much do you think they, (the folks from Nielsen and Minnesota) might have lost or made on the deal?

I believe they lost money. I have no idea as to how much was invested or lost.
How was the price of the Victoria determined? Sure demand usually drives price, but how was the initial price of the Victoria determined? Was there a 25 or 35%, or more profit margin?

Your comment reminds me of Bill and his friends during the early stages of the V-18 evolution. “People will want this boat and we’ll make a fortune!” Sort of like “If we build it they will come.” As with any manufactured product, price is determined by cost and mitigated by the market. In the case of the V-18, the cost was hard to pin down. I would be surprised if the margin on the V-18 ever exceeded 10%, although I’m sure that Bill and his crew thought they were clearing 30% or 35%. There were far too many components in the cost analysis which were largely ignored by Bill’s accounting people. Folks who are looking back at Victoria Yachts need to remember that Bill and company were very good at designing and building fiberglass boats. They were not world-class businessmen.

Did you have to drop the price on the Vic when the Interest Rates skyrocketed in 81/82?
All sorts of concessions were made to get the V-18s into the dealers hands. Free floor plan, heavy discounts, consignment, etc. The problem was that the dealers were not in a position to take boats. Most had too much inventory and few were making any sales at all. This was not a happy time for the recreational boating retailer.

Kemp
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